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Release planning (post 3-23 release)
06-10-2007, 11:44 PM,
#1
Release planning (post 3-23 release)
I put some notes of what I'd like to work on at:

http://wiki.vdrift.net/index.php?title=Release_Planning

Thoughts?

EDIT 6/23/07: fixed link to work with the new hosting
Reply
06-22-2007, 09:59 PM,
#2
 
I think you have some good ideas. I've now managed to get my hands on my own laptop, and will see if I can come up with some V8 sounds for the original car/engine sounds.
Reply
06-23-2007, 10:09 AM,
#3
 
>Improve the look and feel of the GUI

hm is the GUI flexible enough to provide native button ordering based on the platform being run on?

i think KDE and Windows have "OK" buttons on the left and Gnome and Mac OS at the right.
Reply
06-23-2007, 11:22 AM,
#4
 
Cotharyus: that'd be great. Feel free to take several samples (at different RPMs) and I can crossfade between them to provide better sounds. Record in stereo if at all possible.

abs1nth: that sounds like a good idea. Always give the user what they expect. I'll defer to thelusiv on whether or not this would be easy.
Reply
06-24-2007, 10:07 AM,
#5
 
I'll see what I can do with the recording set up. Also, I'm going to start messing around with the Mac version as well, so I can provide you some feedback there - who is in charge of the Mac release?
Reply
06-25-2007, 01:08 PM,
#6
 
Regarding the button ordering - VDrift is not an application. The UI is not going to look like the native OS, so button ordering is not that important. When was the last time you played a game and thought, "I wish the menu / UI better reflected the way my OS works?" Game UIs are almost always distinctive and different to the OS you are using.

My advice: don't get distracted by tasks like that which offer very insignificant benefits but take valuable implementation time. There are far better features to polish up or work on in VDrift.
Reply
06-25-2007, 02:54 PM,
#7
 
charlieg is right, button order is extremely unimportant. It just needs to be consistent within the game, anything else is a waste of development time.

edit: re-reading this I sound like a jerk. abs1nth, I don't mean to say your suggestion is a bad one. In an ideal world the consistency would be very nice. However I think we have bigger fish to fry.

Here's an idea: why not set up an alternative skin just for OS X, it could have buttons that look more OS X-ish, and things like button placement could easily be changed. This would have to be done manually and updated with every change to the "simple" skin, but could probably be done easily with sed/awk, or something like that.
Reply
06-25-2007, 06:27 PM,
#8
 
charlieg Wrote:Regarding the button ordering - VDrift is not an application. The UI is not going to look like the native OS, so button ordering is not that important. When was the last time you played a game and thought, "I wish the menu / UI better reflected the way my OS works?"
well i know i have a hard time clicking the right button EVERY time i want to start the game. you really get used to hitting the bottom right button to confirm and if that's the cancel button *ouch*


charlieg Wrote:Game UIs are almost always distinctive and different to the OS you are using.
yes and to be honest all game UIs (that i've seen) suck hard. they have much bling to attract people, but their usability is a joke.

thelusiv Wrote:I don't mean to say your suggestion is a bad one.
In an ideal world the consistency would be very nice. However I think we have bigger fish to fry.
i absolutely agree that there are bigger fish to fry, however it is the first thing that came to my mind when i read the sentence about improving the feel of the GUI.

thelusiv Wrote:why not set up an alternative skin just for OS X
i think thats a good idea Wink
Reply
06-25-2007, 07:10 PM,
#9
my thoughts
Quote: * Improve the look and feel of the GUI
* Use the GUI to direct the user to get set up with the options they care about, then get them into a fully working game.

8 clicks between starting the application and the "practice game" window using a Logitech gamepad !!! Necessary calibration should come automatically!

Options to predefine the view and visible elements in screenshots! (add car- / track-name and date)

Quote: * Focus in on one original car and polish it up. Get all of the cool features available working on this car: floating brake pads, original engine sound, interior, glossmap, normal map (if possible), custom gauges.
* Focus in on one original track and polish it up.

Which car, which track??? :-(
Remove the glitches in some tracks.
My idea: a kind of telemetrie, get some physical data in diagramms ( position, speed, travel ... )! This would help to develop better car-physics.

Quote: * Get sounds for wind/road.

A simple soundeffect for collisions (Monaco :-) )

Quote: * Focus in on one game-type for now. Make it fun!
* Eventually, provide some sort of in-game instruction for new users (driving tutorial...? maybe a way to watch the AI do a lap and provide the input graph plus commentary...?).

A better more complete online documentation!

Quote: * Polish in-game text and displays.
* Do as much testing as possible for releases on other platforms, make installs easy, distribute only the "focused" car and track, ...

Getting beta/alpha version i will help on OS X!

Quote:... provide alternative means to distribute the other cars/tracks.

A mac-like way would be, to drop a car or track "package" over the application icon. vdrift looks inside the package, decides type and checks the data and writes it to the right place/directory. Not too much more than the actual processes.

:-)
Reply
06-25-2007, 10:34 PM,
#10
 
abs1nth Wrote:well i know i have a hard time clicking the right button EVERY time i want to start the game. you really get used to hitting the bottom right button to confirm and if that's the cancel button *ouch*
You know, maybe having OK on the right would be better all the time. Any objections? I'm used to Gnome and it is set up the same way, OK on the right.

I think what Joe was referring to with the menu improvements is things like this: it's not directly obvious which settings to use for what kind of input. It would be nice to have a "druid" that asks you simple high-level questions about your setup and sets things up for you. As charlieg said it takes too long to get to the game, and even then the controls probably need tweaking. So it would be better if we had something to walk people through the setup.

I agree also that we need some driver training. I think rather than just showing an AI player go around the track it would be better to have a scripted training session that tells the driver to do increasingly difficult tasks and tells them if they were successful or not. Something like the training in ATV Offroad Fury 2 for PS2. Many other games have similar training sequences. Not sure if a drift game has ever done it before.

edit: More replies to charlieg's post: the car and track are whichever are the best original ones we can legally distribute under the GPL.

documentation: Please contribute to the wiki...I wrote like 95% of the docs up there. Almost no one else contributes Sad It's easy to get burned out on writing documentation. Plus I've been busy and the wiki's been down. Writing good documentation does not happen quickly and can really take up a lot of development time.

car/track distribution: some other threads have discussed this in more detail but i think the best solution would be a cross-platform VDrift data management application written in PyGTK. If we have a separate app, we can include much more information about the data, and even make it easy to find and download new ones through the app, instead of searching the web. My idea is to have different data repositories à la apt, so there could be a repository with free license cars, and one with community supported cars (Racer imports etc), and even maybe one that an artist sets up with his own original cars and asks people to pay for access to, or something like that.

I hope to start work on this app sometime this summer...but don't hold your breath. There's also the new track editor to work on, and of course various things in the game itself, documentation, releases and all that other fun stuff. Smile
Reply
06-26-2007, 07:21 AM,
#11
 
thelusiv Wrote:car/track distribution: some other threads have discussed this in more detail but i think the best solution would be a cross-platform VDrift data management application written in PyGTK.

just wanted you to know that GTK doesn't work natively on Mac OS X, which means it requires an X Server to be started and looks out of place. (there is an native port in its infancy though). QT on the other hand is very well supported on Mac OS X, and their Windows version also works better than GTKs port i've heard.
however if you stick to PyGTK it shouldn't too though to write an additional native GUI for Mac OS X.[/img]
Reply
06-26-2007, 10:17 AM,
#12
 
Quote:hm is the GUI flexible enough to provide native button ordering based on the platform being run on?

Quote:charlieg is right, button order is extremely unimportant. It just needs to be consistent within the game, anything else is a waste of development time.

Quote:Here's an idea: why not set up an alternative skin just for OS X, it could have buttons that look more OS X-ish, and things like button placement could easily be changed. This would have to be done manually and updated with every change to the "simple" skin, but could probably be done easily with sed/awk, or something like that.

Okay, so I thought abs1nth's idea wasn't bad. It sounds like it'd be very easy to just make a sed script to change the button ordering and have different defaults in each platform's distribution (wouldn't even have to touch the code) -- the porters could manage it -- but if everyone's OK with just having the OK button on the right (I am), then that works too.

Quote:I think what Joe was referring to with the menu improvements is things like this: ... it would be nice to have a "druid"

That's definitely part of it (and would include calibration), but I'd also like to try to jazz up the graphics a bit and decrease the amount of time it takes to get around in the menu system. We have some really deep menus at the moment where, after changing a setting or whatever, you have to click OK or BACK about 7 times.

Quote:I think rather than just showing an AI player go around the track it would be better to have a scripted training session that tells the driver to do increasingly difficult tasks and tells them if they were successful or not.

That's very similar to Gran Turismo, and would be familiar to users. It might not be a bad way to go.

Quote:GTK doesn't work natively on Mac OS X

Has anyone used PyQT before?
Reply
06-26-2007, 01:58 PM,
#13
 
joevenzon Wrote:
Quote:GTK doesn't work natively on Mac OS X

Has anyone used PyQT before?

No, but I think it should be the best to create another Mac OS X app. I like to contribute to both applications

I'm familiar with GTK API (used with C-sharp), I just started writing applications with C-sharp and their cocoa(mac os X interface) bindings.
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