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About the joe-format
12-05-2009, 07:08 AM,
#1
About the joe-format
Hi, there!

I'm a total newbie in 3D-modeling, but vdrift makes me appetite for getting into it. Now, I've got some question about the technical background of the joe-format vdrift is using...

*What are the roots of the joe-format? Where does it come from?
*Why have you decided to use the joe format? What is better about it in comparison to others?
*There are plenty of good models for the (not really open source) game "racer" - why did you decide to take a format that is not compatible to their format?
*Both blender and wings3D can't handle *.joe - at least without a plugin. Wouldn't it be better to use a format that can be exported directly from these?

Hope I don't start a flamewar with these questions - it's really just that I'm very interested in vdrift... Smile

Greetings
Mitsch
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12-05-2009, 12:28 PM,
#2
Re: About the joe-format
mitscherdinger Wrote:*What are the roots of the joe-format? Where does it come from?

It's very similar to the md2 (quake 2 model) format, but without some of the reduced precision stuff they did to save on space.

Quote:*Why have you decided to use the joe format? What is better about it in comparison to others?

All I needed was a simple binary format to dump verts, normals, and triangles. Unfortunately I couldn't find a good one when I was initially looking, so I wrote my own. Most of the formats that were in common use were either way way more than I needed, text formats (slow to load, large on space), or didn't have enough (I needed per-vertex normals).

Quote:*There are plenty of good models for the (not really open source) game "racer" - why did you decide to take a format that is not compatible to their format?

I didn't find out about racer until maybe a year or so after I started VDrift. There is a dof to joe conversion utility available, though I wrote it mainly for track objects and I'm not sure anyone has tried it for cars:
http://svn.vdrift.net/repos/vdrift-track...k/dof2joe/

Quote:*Both blender and wings3D can't handle *.joe - at least without a plugin. Wouldn't it be better to use a format that can be exported directly from these?

Maybe. Can you suggest one?

If you want, you can convert from .joe to .obj (the text wavefront OBJ format that's widely supported) using the converter that comes in VDrift/tools/modelconvert.

What I should probably do is move .dof support into modelconvert instead of having a separate utility, and also make modelconvert able to convert to .joe (instead of just from .joe)....
Reply
12-05-2009, 08:17 PM,
#3
Re: About the joe-format
Thanks for your answers! That put some light into it. I read in the wiki that it was a "proprietary format" and thought: *.joe must be a standard-format for a closed-source modeling-software and I searched it in the internet without successs. Everything is pretty clear, now that I finally read your nickname... Smile

joevenzon Wrote:
Quote:*Both blender and wings3D can't handle *.joe - at least without a plugin. Wouldn't it be better to use a format that can be exported directly from these?
Maybe. Can you suggest one?
Err...no.
I guess you already know about the blender game engine and there will be a couple of reasons why this won't be a sollution for this project. I mean, beside the fact, that wings3D can't export to blender-format directly, also...

joevenzon Wrote:What I should probably do is move .dof support into modelconvert instead of having a separate utility, and also make modelconvert able to convert to .joe (instead of just from .joe)....
That will be a good idea. If I have some spare time, I'll check the "original" dof2joe on some of racers cars.

Greetings
Mitsch
Reply
12-06-2009, 06:25 PM,
#4
 
Sorry - need some help to build dof2joe...
I downdloaded vdrift-trackeditor via svn. If I run "run" I'll get into the editor. But I can't build dof2joe. If I type "scons" in the dof2joe directory I'll get this output:

Code:
scons: Reading SConscript files ...

scons: warning: The Options class is deprecated; use the Variables class instead.
File "/home/mitsch/bin/vdrift-trackeditor/dof2joe/SConstruct", line 3, in <module>
scons: done reading SConscript files.
scons: Building targets ...
g++ -o src/dof2joe.o -c -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -DCONVERT=\"nconvert\" -Iinclude -I/usr/include/SDL src/dof2joe.cpp
src/dof2joe.cpp: In function 'void ConvertTexture(std::string, std::string, std::string)':
src/dof2joe.cpp:910: error: 'strcmp' was not declared in this scope
scons: *** [src/dof2joe.o] Error 1
scons: building terminated because of errors.

My System is Ubuntu Karmic 64bit.

Mitsch
Reply
12-08-2009, 11:24 AM,
#5
 
Indeed, it looks like the dof2joe sources needed an extra header to compile on recent compilers. I've added that and checked the fix into SVN... should work now.

I suspect that if you use it on cars you *may* run into an issue where the normals are pointing in the wrong direction, causing lighting to look weird (in which case that's a bug with an easy fix). Let me know how it goes.
Reply
12-08-2009, 06:35 PM,
#6
 
O.k. - compiled fine, now!
joevenzon Wrote:I suspect that if you use it on cars you *may* run into an issue where the normals are pointing in the wrong direction, causing lighting to look weird (in which case that's a bug with an easy fix). Let me know how it goes.
Can I see this in the standard view of Blender or Wings3D?
I tried dof2joe on a "Renault 5" from racer-xtreme

http://racer-xtreme.com/cars.php?ck=224

and it worked just great at least for the pure model without any textures on it. dof2joe devided the body.dof file into three joe-objects (body, interior, glass), and I could flawlessly convert the three pieces into wavefronts obj-files. Importing into Blender or Wings3D worked with no problems. If I should have seen any wierd lightning till now there seems to be no bug at all.

I guess I should contact some model-developers from racer, now... Smile (Although I should have learned to handle textures with my tools, first.)
By the way: What license do we need? Any CC-License or does it have to be GPL?

Greetings!
Mitsch
Reply
12-08-2009, 11:24 PM,
#7
 
Some of the CC licenses are fine (BY and BY-SA, I think). The CC NC option might be OK too, but I probably wouldn't bundle cars with that license with the release.
Reply
12-09-2009, 10:21 AM,
#8
 
joevenzon Wrote:The CC NC option might be OK too, but I probably wouldn't bundle cars with that license with the release.
Mhh. Just thought about it: Does the license of cars on cars.vdrift.net matter at all, as long as they are downloadable for free? If some modelers don't like the idea of open source, they could still offer their cars for vdrift that way. Somewhere in the game there could be a hint saying: "More cars available at..." and everyone's happy.
Of course, making some racer-cars available in the "normal" vdrift package would be the best, but I guess, you can't offer all the cars in vdrift, anyway.

I'll try to contact some modelers on racer-xtreme and tell them about vdrift - or has sb done this, already? (Don't like to bother them, twice...)

Another question: Is there any contact to the TORCS or the TORCS-NG ("Speed Dreams") people? Maybe there is also a possibility to share cars and tracks. (Tried to import one of their "acc"-car-files into blender - thought it was an AC3D-file, but it doesn't seem to be one...)
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12-10-2009, 11:19 AM,
#9
 
mitscherdinger Wrote:Does the license of cars on cars.vdrift.net matter at all, as long as they are downloadable for free? If some modelers don't like the idea of open source, they could still offer their cars for vdrift that way.

I totally agree.

About TORCS and racer contacts: I haven't made any, although others may have. I know alex25 for example has gotten in touch with a lot of track artists from other games (including rFactor, etc) to get permission to put their tracks in VDrift.
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