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08-08-2006, 04:49 PM,
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spoonboiler
Junior Member
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Posts: 6
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2006
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comments on mouse steering
hi
first off, i really like this project; i am looking forward very much to seeinng how it progresses.
my suggestion is that the steering (specifically mouse steering) be given a control accelleration curve - it seems like it may already have one implemented, but if so it is very shallow, perhaps more V shaped?
Here's what i mean: when the mouse / steering wheel is centered, the sensitivity should be close to zero. As one turns to the left or to the right, the sensitivity should gradually increase, on an increasing curve: 'exponential'? but not quite that intense, perhaps more like repeated doubling...
think of a U shape, rather than a V shape, when you picture the shape of the sensitivity increase.
One should be able to have the entire steering range within a single mouse pass, while still maintaining the very low sensitivity in the center....
er... am i making sense? I am sorry if this sounds foolish, i am trying hard to explain something that i don't have much knowledge about :lol:
Ideally the curve "tension" (depth / shape of the control sensitivity curve) could be user adjustable, from flat, to V shape, to U shape. This would be important i think for what i assume is the majority who use steering wheels.
Does this make sense to you? and please tell me what you think. and whether I am way off in left field so to speak.
for an example of what i think is by far the best mouse driving experience, please check out LFS (Live for Speed, S2 - demo).
I know it must be irritating when people compare your work to another game and say "it should be like this.." so understand i am not meaning it that way.
cheers
keep up the excellent work
-gabriel
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08-08-2006, 04:49 PM,
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spoonboiler
Junior Member
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Posts: 6
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2006
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comments on mouse steering
hi
first off, i really like this project; i am looking forward very much to seeinng how it progresses.
my suggestion is that the steering (specifically mouse steering) be given a control accelleration curve - it seems like it may already have one implemented, but if so it is very shallow, perhaps more V shaped?
Here's what i mean: when the mouse / steering wheel is centered, the sensitivity should be close to zero. As one turns to the left or to the right, the sensitivity should gradually increase, on an increasing curve: 'exponential'? but not quite that intense, perhaps more like repeated doubling...
think of a U shape, rather than a V shape, when you picture the shape of the sensitivity increase.
One should be able to have the entire steering range within a single mouse pass, while still maintaining the very low sensitivity in the center....
er... am i making sense? I am sorry if this sounds foolish, i am trying hard to explain something that i don't have much knowledge about :lol:
Ideally the curve "tension" (depth / shape of the control sensitivity curve) could be user adjustable, from flat, to V shape, to U shape. This would be important i think for what i assume is the majority who use steering wheels.
Does this make sense to you? and please tell me what you think. and whether I am way off in left field so to speak.
for an example of what i think is by far the best mouse driving experience, please check out LFS (Live for Speed, S2 - demo).
I know it must be irritating when people compare your work to another game and say "it should be like this.." so understand i am not meaning it that way.
cheers
keep up the excellent work
-gabriel
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08-09-2006, 04:37 AM,
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spoonboiler
Junior Member
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Posts: 6
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2006
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 hi thelusive
thanx for the response:
i don't recall there being dead zones for the steering... ??
i guess i will have to look harder :lol: sorry for missing it.
as for the adjustable curve for steering sensitivity, what do you think about that? maybe having some options like "exp" and "log" for preset curve shapes?
See, the problem i have right now is if i set it low enough that i can drive without going all over the road just by breathing heavy ( :lol: ) then it takes two or three passes with my mouse to get across the steering range, so with a curve setting one could get it just right for oneself.
Anyway, this is a nice development, and gives me all the more reason to get into 3d / game development stuff, and see what i can contribute that way. I'm more of an artist than a coder though 
PS: ooh, just remembered another related question: i can't seem to use a mouse control at the same time as a keyboard control; what i would like to be able to do is steer with mouse, and shift gears with keyboard, and maybe assign mouse buttons to brake and gas; is there a way to do that?
- with drifting there is lots of pumping the brakes and gunning the accelerator, so really a drift game suits the 'on/off' nature of using buttons for pedals much better than most racing games do
cheers
-gabriel
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08-09-2006, 04:37 AM,
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spoonboiler
Junior Member
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Posts: 6
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2006
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hi thelusive
thanx for the response:
i don't recall there being dead zones for the steering... ??
i guess i will have to look harder :lol: sorry for missing it.
as for the adjustable curve for steering sensitivity, what do you think about that? maybe having some options like "exp" and "log" for preset curve shapes?
See, the problem i have right now is if i set it low enough that i can drive without going all over the road just by breathing heavy ( :lol: ) then it takes two or three passes with my mouse to get across the steering range, so with a curve setting one could get it just right for oneself.
Anyway, this is a nice development, and gives me all the more reason to get into 3d / game development stuff, and see what i can contribute that way. I'm more of an artist than a coder though
PS: ooh, just remembered another related question: i can't seem to use a mouse control at the same time as a keyboard control; what i would like to be able to do is steer with mouse, and shift gears with keyboard, and maybe assign mouse buttons to brake and gas; is there a way to do that?
- with drifting there is lots of pumping the brakes and gunning the accelerator, so really a drift game suits the 'on/off' nature of using buttons for pedals much better than most racing games do
cheers
-gabriel
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08-10-2006, 01:36 AM,
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thelusiv
Administrator
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Posts: 2,346
Threads: 223
Joined: Jun 2005
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spoonboiler Wrote:thanx for the response:
i don't recall there being dead zones for the steering... ??
i guess i will have to look harder :lol: sorry for missing it. You're right, there aren't deadzones for mouse steering, only brake/gas. We didn't think they were necessary, since one would want the mouse to be fluid and make little tiny adjustments. However I do find it hard sometimes to find the middle.
spoonboiler Wrote:as for the adjustable curve for steering sensitivity, what do you think about that? maybe having some options like "exp" and "log" for preset curve shapes? I believe that we use a curve for sensitivity adjustment on the mouse already. I am not exactly sure though, I'll have to check out the code. Joe knows...he may read this and chime in.
spoonboiler Wrote:See, the problem i have right now is if i set it low enough that i can drive without going all over the road just by breathing heavy ( :lol: ) then it takes two or three passes with my mouse to get across the steering range, so with a curve setting one could get it just right for oneself. I see what you mean. Which setting are you talking about being too touchy - high? very high? and which is too low?
spoonboiler Wrote:PS: ooh, just remembered another related question: i can't seem to use a mouse control at the same time as a keyboard control; what i would like to be able to do is steer with mouse, and shift gears with keyboard, and maybe assign mouse buttons to brake and gas; is there a way to do that? Right now the mouse controls in VDrift are hard-coded, because our controls class doesn't know about the mouse yet. I have been hoping to change this so that we can add any kind of mouse action (buttons, wheels, motion) to just about any control and mix it with joystick and keyboard controls. I'll add it to the TODO...
spoonboiler Wrote:- with drifting there is lots of pumping the brakes and gunning the accelerator, so really a drift game suits the 'on/off' nature of using buttons for pedals much better than most racing games do Have you played with the keyboard yet? Do you have any suggestions on how to make it better?
I think the best way to play VDrift right now is with a steering wheel, or at least some kind of dual-joystick, like a gamepad. The other input device handing needs a little work to make it easier to drive with, so the more feedback you can give us on that, the better.
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08-10-2006, 01:36 AM,
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thelusiv
Administrator
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Posts: 2,346
Threads: 223
Joined: Jun 2005
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spoonboiler Wrote:thanx for the response:
i don't recall there being dead zones for the steering... ??
i guess i will have to look harder :lol: sorry for missing it. You're right, there aren't deadzones for mouse steering, only brake/gas. We didn't think they were necessary, since one would want the mouse to be fluid and make little tiny adjustments. However I do find it hard sometimes to find the middle.
spoonboiler Wrote:as for the adjustable curve for steering sensitivity, what do you think about that? maybe having some options like "exp" and "log" for preset curve shapes? I believe that we use a curve for sensitivity adjustment on the mouse already. I am not exactly sure though, I'll have to check out the code. Joe knows...he may read this and chime in.
spoonboiler Wrote:See, the problem i have right now is if i set it low enough that i can drive without going all over the road just by breathing heavy ( :lol: ) then it takes two or three passes with my mouse to get across the steering range, so with a curve setting one could get it just right for oneself. I see what you mean. Which setting are you talking about being too touchy - high? very high? and which is too low?
spoonboiler Wrote:PS: ooh, just remembered another related question: i can't seem to use a mouse control at the same time as a keyboard control; what i would like to be able to do is steer with mouse, and shift gears with keyboard, and maybe assign mouse buttons to brake and gas; is there a way to do that? Right now the mouse controls in VDrift are hard-coded, because our controls class doesn't know about the mouse yet. I have been hoping to change this so that we can add any kind of mouse action (buttons, wheels, motion) to just about any control and mix it with joystick and keyboard controls. I'll add it to the TODO...
spoonboiler Wrote:- with drifting there is lots of pumping the brakes and gunning the accelerator, so really a drift game suits the 'on/off' nature of using buttons for pedals much better than most racing games do Have you played with the keyboard yet? Do you have any suggestions on how to make it better?
I think the best way to play VDrift right now is with a steering wheel, or at least some kind of dual-joystick, like a gamepad. The other input device handing needs a little work to make it easier to drive with, so the more feedback you can give us on that, the better.
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